Wednesday, September 3, 2008

Ramadan Thoughts4: Investigate, Verify, Use your brains.

Quran surah 17 verse 36 :

“And pursue not that of which you have no knowledge; for every act of
hearing, or of seeing or of the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of

For you and you alone will be accountable for your actions on earth:

"And behold! you come to us bare and alone as We created you for the first time: you have left behind you all (the favours) which We bestowed on you: We see not with you your intercessors whom you thought to be partners in your affairs: so now all relations between you have been cut off, and your (pet) fancies have left you in the lurch!" [006.094]


Anonymous said...

Do we think? Do we question? or do we question then only we think?

I read somewhere the other day that people are more afraid of thinking than dying! really ah?

maybe we all should return to spirituality and forget religion.

forget religion?

why? am i out of my mind?

Could it be possible that in order for religion to succeed, it has to first make us believe that we needed it?

In order for people to put faith in something else, they first must lose faith in themselves? Are we like that? Did religion do that to us?

So maybe the first task of organised religion was to make us lose faith in ourselves?

The second task is to make us see that their religion had all the answers that we do not?

And the third was to make us accept all its answers without question?

Is this proposition entirely possible? maybe its just ridiculous..

Probably is, but who am i to question religion and the high priest, and imam and monks, who knows much much more than me.

Does this mean if we start to question we start to think??!

Because if we start to think, we might, might just come up with another proposition may it be hypothetical that is different than religion has contrived?

Does this mean that religion must make us doubt our own ability to think straight? So that they can succeed to control us?

Bulan of Puteras

jahamy said...

Bulan of puteras,

Would it not be easier for discussion if you just sign in as bulan of puteras?

Anyway you wrote "maybe we all should return to spirituality and forget religion."

Religion as is normally understood consists of a set of belief, rituals, some form of priesthood, some holy scripture and some holy places. In this all religions seem to be common.

The most common thing about each religion is that while they are also divided into several sects of their won within that religion. And each claim ONLY they are right. In this sense therefore, religion is exclusive - it deliberately excludes others unless you adhere to its beliefs.

Dissent is disallowed and can be costly, sometimes costing even lives. Hence in this sense religion is argued to be disruptive rather than unifying. Any apparent unity is shallow and ritualistic. In real terms, all persons for themselves.

jahamy said...

On the question of thinking and verifying for yourself, you will notice that like most religious adherents, despite what the Quran says, many muslims too delegate the task of understanding Islam to religious experts. This inspite of the clear quranic verse which says "We see not with you your intercessors whom you thought to be partners in your affairs: so now all relations between you have been cut off," in surah 6 verse 94.

The "fear" of going wrong if you think for yourself seems to overlook the fact that you may still go wrong because the expert may be lying. How do you know if you do not check? Even if the expert had reached the right views and you accept it ... is it because you believe the expert or because you have considered critically the view to be correct? To me, there is a big difference.

No one else can convince you of God if you are not convinced yourself.

Anonymous said...

Brother Jahaberdeen,

There is a nice contention by Imam Al-Ghazali; Quoted in Arabic Language " Ta'rifu Nafsaka Wa A'rifullah". Means:- "Get to know yourself then only you will only know God".

To those who knows himself of Course he will thinks about His Creator.

Peace of Mind!


jahaberdeen said...

Brother Ibnumubarak,

I agree with you. Most people try to find God from scripture and from clergy or are "taught that God exists" and they "believe". HOwever, if you discuss with them or you challenge their views, they are easily rattled and therefore become defensive, angry or aggressive. I think that is because, they have never thought about seeking God. As you said, they probably never even thought about their makeup and the universe around them. Hence, they could never reach a comfortable conclusion for themselves whether God does exist or not because they have adopted the belief of others. Likewise I also know of so-called atheists who simply disbelieve God because they have never pondered or thought about things deeply.

Unthinking cuts both ways. In matters of faith, the clergy always say do not ask, but just believe. To me, the whole of Quran enjoins humans to think, ponder, discover and reach a conclusion for yourself.


Bulan of Puteras said...

Has Religion Separated Man from God?

If i was an atheist and look at religion and what it has done, my only conclusion can be that religion has no God!

Did religion filled man with the fear of God? or was that really God's doing?

Did religion order man to bow down before God? or was that really God's doing?

Man once were full of inspiration and were joyfully reaching for the stars. What happened to all that?

Did religion burden man with worries about God's doomsday? or was that really God's doing? Before that didnt man once sought God to unburden them?

Did religion tell man (and woman) to be ashamed of his (and her) body and natural functions? To cover up all God created in man? Where once man (and woman) celebrated and enjoyed those natural God given functions without guilt or shame?

Did religion tell man that they needed to go through and intermediary to talk to God? That if they tried to talk to God themselves without going through the translation and intepretation of religion (there are many many versions of religions by now) that they will not be understood by God? Or maybe not be able to succeed in communicating with God by not using the code of religion?

Wasnt man's knowledge or practice of reaching God was just through a simple honest living in goodness and truth?

Did religion commanded man to adore God, or was that God? Where once man adored God because it was impossible NOT to??!

Religion all over the world, with so many of their versions in interpretation, from the old to the new testaments, the surahs and the hadith and many many more and versions keep evoluting frequently. Did religion everywhere mutated and created disunity which is the opposite of God? 911? Iraq?

The question is, did religion:
1. separated man from God?
2. separated Man from Man?
3. separated Man from Woman?
some religion claims Man are above Woman, at the same time it claims God is above man? Is this a travesty?

Well i dont personally feel that man are above woman, sometimes its also fun for the woman to be above...anyways..

Was religion then created to suit man? Arent we still arguing which gender is ordained by God to be priests? shoudnt all man be priests? shoudnt all man be able to do God's work if we were all created equal?

Arent we all, to the very last one of us, made in the image and likeness of God?

Finally, i think we all should believe in the goodness of God's creation, which is: OURSELVES !!!

jahaberdeen said...

bulan of puteras,

Like to comment on a few things you raised. 1) if you are an atheist, whether you look at religion or not, you already believe there is no God!
2) While it may be said that religion, as is generally understood, may not represent the Truth, it however does not follow that one who believes in God MUST have a religion. I believe in God and personally, I do not have a religion, as is normally understood.
3)even taking religions as it exists, not many even study their own religion, therefore, open to manipulation by experts
4)there is also ignornce about oen's own and other people's religion
5) few study scriptures and analyse it crtically.
6) People care more for religion than they do for GOd.

Bulan putera, it will be easier to discuss if you may want to take one point at a time. ANyway, appreciate your efforts.


Anonymous said...

woo hoo hoo seems appropriate..

Anonymous said...


you are most kind and humble

bulan of puteras

Anonymous said...

actually i thought i did only make one point?


bulan of puteras

wan_hashim said...

Memang benar Allah swt mengajar manusia supaya berfikir. Kalau kita tidak berfikir bagaimana kita mahu menilai,meneliti atau memahami sesuatu? Kadang kala memikirkan sesuatu akan menimbulkan pelbagai soalan-soalan. Bila kita tany, baru lah jawapan dapat dicapai atau sekurang-kurangnya kekustuan didalam minda akan berkurangan. Ini adalah ajaran Tuhan dan sejajar dengan apa yang dikatakan oleh bulan of putras sebagai "spirituality". Malangnya, agama telah dijadikan sebagai satu institusi dengan penekan kepada fekah semata-mata. Lagi pun, ulamak-ulamak yang mahu kuasa mereka tidak dicabar mengalakkan budaya yang tidak menyoal. Lama kelamaan orang-orang Melayu menjadi tidak berani berfikir dalam hal agama.

Saya percaya inilah antara sebabnya walaupun kita tahu islam itu benar tetapi keadaan orang Melayu didalam negara ini tidak menampakkan kebenaran Islam. Melayu lemah, tamak, malas berfikir dan macam-macam gejala sosial. Semua ini saya percaya kerana orang poltik dan orng agama telah menjauhkan buday berdikari dan berfikir dikalangan Melayu.

Anonymous said...

Mr Jabar,

I think what Bulan of Puteras was trying to say is people have generally given all their faith to religion unquestionally.

They have done so due to a few possibilities, some were explained by our honourable Wan Hashim.

And if i am right, then what Bulan wanted to say was should we follow the teachings of religion which was written by man like sheep and if we use out thinking to deduce for ourselves, is it wrong?

I can speak for myself and say I will rather forget religion and communicate with God direct, in the end how my fate lands up its bewteen me and God. At least i had a hand in determining it whether correct or in correct, in the end its my life...

The Juice

Anonymous said...

Everything depends on what we perceive to be the purpose of life. Does religion really work? Can it work without a system of Reward and Punishment?

If we believe that our life on this earth, is a test, a marathon, a trial, a period of seeing when we "break", and if we did not "break" and deemed worthy, then we will be given the permission to enter God's "heavan" and if we did not pass then we will be send to the devil. If we believe that, than religions make sense?

But if we believe that life on earth exists as an opportunity, a process through which we are able to discover for ourselves - remember what we discovered, that we are afterall worthy of God, then religion seems crazy?

If we believe that God is egoistic and require constant attention, adoration, appreciation, affection and will kill to get it, then religion make sense?

But if we believe that God has no ego or need, but its the source of all things, and is the temple of all wisdom and love, then religion dont make sense?

If we believe that God is vengeful, jealous in His love and wrathful in His anger, the religion would have nailed it on the head?

But if we believe God is peaceful, joyous in love, then religion must be wrong what they have taught us?

Maybe the purpose of life is not to PLEASE God (as religion wants us to believe), but maybe the purpose is to know and to recreate who we are? And maybe by doing so we please and glorify God?

Maybe religion is just a manupulation of man by man, for the purpose of man's power, greed and lust? And we are made to believe that was what God wanted, and if we did not follow those religious teachings, we will be thrown to the devil?

Bulan of Puteras